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Comment by chinedu onyenekwe
For me. it has to do with in some cases with false doctrine and false teachers.
In another case it has to do with little or no understanding. in this case you see senseless argument. Both parties are saying the same thing in different words.
In another case it has to do with respecting the persons of men. Intimidation and fear of men, succumb to popular opinion. When a preacher is highly respected and people have gotten emotional towards him. When he goes wrong, people rather that confront him choose to continue with him and call it love, submission ,loyalty, faithfulness, respect for elders, using wisdom etc
In another case people choose the neck/skin friendly side. Just love of the world and self in action/progress
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Comment by Milt Reynolds
I think Chinedu summarized the problem well.
By definition there should only be one interpretation of fact, including scripture. There may be many different applications of a truth, but only one direct interpretation of the words in which the truth is communicated.
Given an accurate, contextually-honest understanding of each word of the scripture, there can be only the one meaning of the whole.
Sloppy or dishonest translation, or careless reading and study will allow personal bias or hidden agenda will drive the interpretation and subsequent application.
Not all questions are answered in satisfying detail by God’s Word. Some issues remain vague and obscured. To attempt to fabricate detailed doctrine from obscure verses is just as dishonest and false as failing to read contextually and with understanding.
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Comment by ceseeley
First of all, as Christians, we are to take Romans 12:1-2 seriously in our lives and to learn how to “Walk in the Spirit” allowing the Holy Spirit, tempered with Scripture and Prayer, to guides us into all truth for God’s Glory so that there will not be so many doctrinal divisions because we are suppose to be one in Christ, like minded and able to reason together for God’s Glory!!
Secondly, we are to wait upon the Lord and let Him initiate the guidance for His Glory and not our own:
Psa 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.
So considering the previous topic of Women Pastors, with all of its comments, how many of these commentators have taken seriously in their lives the aforementioned prerequisites for seeking truth?
I think there is a Scripture that says when the husband and the wife cannot agree in the Lord, then the husband has the final word. I wish people would help me find that Scripture if it is there, otherwise, I read that perspective in footnotes, annotations or a commentary … etc.
As Christian we are to compare Scripture precept by precept,line by line, otherwise, are we just compromising the obvious interpretation of Scriptures for expediency, agenda/ideology fulfillment,
political/power goals … etc?
I bring up the previous topic of Women Pastors and ask this question and hopefully the commentators will abide by the aforementioned prerequisites for seeking truth about the meat of the word!!!
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
When considering these two Scriptures and a husband and a wife that are obedient to them, then what happens to that obedience when the same couple goes to church and the wife assumes the head of the church by being its pastor-teacher and head pastor and/or head minister?
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Comment by Michael James Stone
Failure of Intent not Content: Direction determines results.
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Comment by alvin
Because God knows everything, including human limitations.
Though his Spirit does guide us who believe _into_ all truth, He does not pour all of His knowledge into any of us. Our brains would instantly look like a motor whose rpms had been redlined for too long- parts all over the place. Jesus was the only one of whom it is said, “He gave not His Spirit by measure unto Him”.
The easiest way to make a fool of any intelligent and honest student of the Bible, is to trick that student into thinking they have all the answers.
And the cunning and dishonest users of the Bible will almost always claim superior knowledge.
That is why christians have been bilked time and time again in history by teachings like, the earth is flat, dinosaurs do not exist, if my personal faith is only strong enough…, or the case of the inventor of glasses (1900s) that could see the inhabited places of the moon, and creatures roaming on it; if i just send 3 payments of 69 dollars to this tv preacher, all my prayers will be answered the way i want them answered, the Lord will come back on a date we have discovered in 1912, 1923, may 21 of this year, when the mayan calendar runs out, immediately after i invent the perfect pancake but before i get to eat it; there is some human at the top of my religious group who is all knowing and i can turn off my brain that God gave me and just follow some other human being….
in case you were wondering, the fruit of the spirit i have the most trouble with is longsuffering.
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Comment by Debbie
Much of it has to do with our “flesh” and our varying temperaments. To love the Word, is to love Jesus. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (JOHN 1:1) I think that we all want to be right. We come with preconceived teachings oftentimes and sometimes we can become not teachable. I truly would always like to know when I am way off base and be corrected by the Word of God. The words “translations” and “interpretation” get thrown around quite a bit and really are two different things. Personally, I believe that God used the original languages for a very good reason. Philip of Macedonia had conquered most of the known world when the NT was written. With so many conscripts in his army from all over especially the different Greek states, God used the Koine Greek as a universal language to spread the gospel meesage. From my own limited study of Greek and Hebrew, I find the language is much more specific and not nearly as ambiguous as English. For example, the word “if” in English always indicates “iffy.” In Greek it is a conditional clause and has four different outcomes based upon how it is used in the grammatical context. Again, we don’t even teach grammar in English much anymore, let alone Greek and Hebrew grammar in a church body. I used to have to diagram sentences as a child in grade school. This technique with a good pastor-teacher or teaching gift could add immeasurably to the average believer’s understanding of the Holy Scripture. It can often clear up things that are not good teaching. Even there people will disagree. If I could afford it, I would love to obtain a PHD in Hebrew and Greek studies just for my own personal knowledge. “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” (MATT 5:18) I love that the “jot” and “tittle,” the two smallest punctuation marks in grammar are considered of extreme importance to the Holy Spirit, who is the author of Scripture. (as long you believe it is inspired and inerrant) As far as translations go, I encourage believers in my church body to read it every day and read it in its entirety, not just the NT, but all the Bible. I also agree that we can get bad viewpoints from teaching we have received. As we just learned, there is much debate concerning male or female pastors. That I can say, “to each their own.” When we start talking about doctrines like the deity of Christ, the triunity of God, etc, then I don’t think we can be so loose. Anyway, the point is that we all love the Lord and as long as that is true, I love everybody as well. I just like some better than others. Paul spoke this way of Timothy. With some people I am “like-minded” (sumpsuche): which loosley translated might mean “soul-mate.” Peace to all…
MARANATHA
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Comment by Brad
Great question. As Jusus teaches us, there’s only one truth. While we all would like to believe that our own interpretation is true and guided by the Holy Spirit, it can’t be so. That’s why the Church, through sacred scripture, the mageristerium (teaching body) and sacred tradition (that was taught orally and thru art by the Apostles before the bible was composed) can be the only true authority to teach the faith!
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Comment by Brad
Please forgive the typos…Jesus and magisterium!
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Comment by Mimi
Thank you chinedu & ceseeley,
I have a question for ceseeley. ceseeley you often refer to
Romans 12:1-2 and the importance of this Scripture Verse.
Romans 12:1-2 (New International Version, ©2010)
A Living Sacrifice
1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
You also mentioned that by following this Scripture Verse that we also need to ““Walk in the Spirit” allowing the Holy Spirit, tempered with Scripture and Prayer, to guide us into all truth for God’s Glory.” You also point out that this needs to be done “so that there will not be so many doctrinal divisions because we are suppose to be one in Christ, like minded and able to reason together for God’s Glory!!”
Once we have done this you tell us to “wait upon the Lord and let Him initiate the guidance for His Glory and not our own.”
OKAY, I understand this, I have been hearing you share this message for sometime now. I am trying myself to really apply what you have been telling us all along. My only question is, what if I still come to a different conclusion than you or another believer, does that automatically mean that either I or they didn’t hear the Holy Spirit but thought they had and then how do you know who is correct?
What I see from your example above is that we must compare what we feel the Holy Spirit has shown us, with other Scripture, in order to confirm that we have just heard from the Holy Spirit. In other words we MUST use Scripture to back up Scripture, correct?
God Bless YOU,
Mimi
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Comment by Edith Jane
Ceseeley,
I feel the same way, it’s pretty heart breaking when brothers and sisters in the Lord are splintered. (Mark 3:25)
God bless!
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Comment by alvin
Mimi, Ceseeley will probably speak of lining up scripture and experience with the inner witness. You asked him not me, so i will leave it at that.
Deb- was Philip of macedonia the father of Alexander the Great? So he would be before Jesus time and before the septuagint was written? Of course your basic point that the europe having the universal greek language prepared the way to spread the salvation message before Jesus arrived on earth is true.
I think something i was working on on a separate topic actually fits better here:
Remember it was Paul who said in Galatians that he withstood Peter to the face, because he was to be blamed.The grace part is getting off the soapbox when “knowing” you are right, and still loving your brother (and sister). That is the love of John14-16 that convinces the world of who the genuine followers of Christ are.
How about, “I’m right, case still open – if you can supply better proof” James 3:17 “wisdom that is from above is first pure, then? peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated,full of mercy and good fruits,without partiality, without hypocrisy”, and v18.
How can each side prove their case by pointing to what are often the same scriptures in different ways?
It can be because scripture is true, but to understand it we need to interpret it. And interpretation is human logic, not scripture. That is why some old churches have 2 pulpits. Only the word of God is read from one, and the sermon is given from the other. It is ritual with the point that what the human speaker says is not to be confused in authority with what God says, no matter who that human leader is or what title they hold.
God has spoken to people where i have spoken in thoughts that he gave to the individuals prompted by something i said. When they thanked me for what they received, I knew i had never said that at all. God had spoken in their heart. This happened in a much greater way in Acts 10:42-45 when the Holy Ghost intervened and shut off a message of Peter by the Holy Ghost falling on those who heard. Maybe the Holy Ghost is prompting someone reading this to show more love for those with whom they disagree, and maybe he is teaching how to disagree honestly and courageously when it will benefit someone else.
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Comment by R
What I have seen, a person will only key certain parts of the Bible, and not look at the rest. A good student of the Bible, will read the old and new testaments. Understand the character of God which He has reveled to us. Understand Biblical hermeneutics. Pay attention to details how God does things as a whole. And most of all PRAY ALWAYS before studying, asking The God to have the Holy Spirit to teach you for the understanding.
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Comment by R
One other thing, ask a person who well respected in teaching the Bible for help.
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Comment by Debbie
Alvin,
Yes, he was Alexander the Great’s father and yes, that did prepare the known world at the time to receive the gospel. From what I understand, Koine Greek at the time was much like English is now; a universal language for doing business, etc. I like the “human logic” comment. Engage the brain before it can go to the heart.
R,
I agree as well. I have had people who were attempting to teach me say, “I have never read that Book. I did not have any need to read AMOS.” I believe it is important to read through for the continuity. Cover to cover…Genesis to Revelation.
MARANATHA
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Comment by Joseph D Cascino
Because of mankind’s sinful nature is the main reason. This reason is why there are so many different Interpretations/denominations. Interpretations among each other lead to denominations. Denominations are splits in humanities thoughts on a belief system. Denomination’s are formed because people can not agree on certain doctrines within the christian faith. Many christians feel its best to divid then to fight. Christians acted outside of love. Which led to different denominations. Which led to different interpretations. There are many false denominations/interpretations in the world around us.
Why do Christians have so many different opinions on Christianity. Because they don’t have a strong enough foundation with their faith. So they can’t build up a solid enough interpretation of the scriptures. Those who don’t do research before they speak lack understanding. Are they praying and listening to what God is telling them. Some Christians live a little world and their is no words you can use to get them out of that world. Then they want to defend their faith and have not enough knowledge to do so.
Many christians and other alike. Are not on a journey at all. They stuck in a passive place. There wheels are not spinning and they are to stubborn to get those wheels spinning.
Give glory to God with your words you choose. If we differ in some areas. It could be a good thing because we can strengthen each other if do it with respect toward one another. Always be prepared to give an answer to those who ask you. But do this with gentleness and respect. If we differ we should seek understanding from each other view points privately. So we can come together as united in front of those who lack understanding of the truth.
Prayer should always be apart of a christians life. So we know for sure the holy spirit is guiding our hearts and words. If we are truly lead by the holy spirit. Then the true christian will be untied. No more leprosy within Christ’s body.
Look at the world around us. So many different beliefs. Many christians don’t have enough understanding of our world to give an answer for the hope that is in them.
Let the holy spirit guide you and be careful of what you hear from others. This is a big reason why Jesus Christ’ will return someday. He will return and there will be no differences in the matter of opinions anymore(Interpretations). If this quarreling among each other continues for to long. The true christian church will eventually die. Well Christ is not gonna let that happen. He will come back to judge the earth. He is just being patient with all humanity. Hoping that all come to repentance and no perish.
We should focus on the infallible love from God. For God is love. Strengthen each other within the words of our lord. Don’t tear each other apart.
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Comment by ceseeley
Brad, Mimi, Edith Jane and All;
Brad, considering you comment #7, what is your definition of the church, it seems like at least one of your perspectives helped to start the Protestant Reformation. What say you?
Mimi, excellent questions in your comments #9. When we do all the prerequisites that are mentioned in the Bible (i.e. that is what they are there for), we learn to rest in the Lord and wait for His guidance for His Glory … remember His Yoke is easy and His Burden is light! (i.e. He “Gave” us Salvation didn’t He, so what else is He willing to give Us if we just obey Scripture through Faith)!
Let us See:
More than 5000 Promises from God in the Bible
The Truth
Eternal Life
The More Abundant Life
And the list just goes on and on.
So what happens then if we seem not to agree like you and I on Women Pastors. I try to stay open to God’s leading by obeying the prerequisites that I listed and hoping that others in true God given Christian Love will come and be one in Christ, like minded and try with the Power of the Holy Spirit, Tempered with Scripture and Prayer, to reason together truly waiting for God’s guidance as He unveils the Truth in all Things according to His Will and Timing for each person for His Glory, for when God is Glorified, it draws others to Him so that He can Bless them too!!!
After all that and we still don’t agree, no matter what degree of disagreement, we are still to love one another in the Lord and do all those other things that the Bible says that we are to do towards and for one another. God’s unveiling of the truth for each one of us is a life long process and it is so much better that way!
Edith Jane;
In responding to your Comment #10, Abraham Lincoln used that Scripture (i.e. Mark 3:25) when he was trying to preserve the Union during the Civil War and rightfully so. I am always reassured by the Scripture that says The Gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church (,i.e. Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.)
So, what can we say to these people that want to change the God Given True Interpretation of Scripture that God intends for each person according to His Will and Timing. Prophetically, wait until the Rapture of the Church and you will get for a short time what you want but you probably won’t want what you get.
Even our Declaration of Independence starts out by saying that we are endowed by our Creator (i.e. God the Father of Jesus Christ) with certain en alienable rights which are life, liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and God can take these away since He has the Power to give them to us! ( i.e. Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.)!!!
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Comment by Edith Jane
Ceseeley,
I didn’t know that about President Abraham Lincoln, great history! “Even our Declaration of Independence starts out by saying that we are endowed by our Creator (i.e. God the Father of Jesus Christ) with certain en alienable rights which are life, liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and God can take these away since He has the Power to give them to us!” Made me think of this:
“Fear God who can destroy both body and soul.”
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Comment by Mimi
@ Alvin,
Thank you Alvin for helping me with my question to Ceseeely, I do appreciate your feedback too.
God Bless You
@Ceseeley,
Thank you for a full explanation in comment #16, I now have a much better idea of what you meant.
God Bless You.
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Comment by Richard Broch
Greetings in Christ to one and all,
Let me add a couple of thoughts to the discussion.
Even though a person might be in Christ, he/she is still a human being. But, God knows everyone`s hearts, and that`a a good thing.
As humans, we have weaknesses and personal concerns. How about two powerful witnesses for Jesus – Paul and Barnabus, who were in “sharp contention” about Mark`s status to accompany them (Acts 15:36-41). Of course, God used this situation to double the missionary effort.
Or how about Peter covering himself, taking six brothers as witnesses to Jerusalem with him to tell the apostles about gentiles coming into the church(Cornelius, Acts, Chapter 10)?
Did he maybe think he wouldn`t be believed?
God still loves us, in spite of ourselves.
Grace and Peace.