Kill versus Murder
(the excuses)
Well, when you asked, I decided to check out the original Greek as well as the Hebrew. Admittedly, my knowledge of Greek is severely limited. The Hebrew word, תרצח, is very clearly an imperative form of the verb for murder. In the Greek, the word φονεύσεις is also translated as murder from what I understand.Biblical translations often come upon several obstacles when they are written. Translations are subject to the translators' personal views. They are subject to colloquialisms contemporary to the translators. And, in the specific case of the Bible, they are very subject to the amplification or revision of the text to make things cover a wider range of ideas than the original text might have intended. And even these tendencies do not take into account the difficulties inherent in translating any ancient language into a more modern one.I can hypothesize several reasons for the discrepancy between the original language of the verse (you shall not murder) and the oft-used inexact translation (you shall not kill). First, one must consider that the most widely disseminated version of the Bible was the King James Version. This version of the Bible translates the verse as "Thou shalt not kill." This translation was begun in 1604 and published in 1611 by the Church of England. It was intended to be read in Churches; and, as were most works at the time, was more intended for learned clergy than for laity. The clergy were likely expected to have some knowledge of the original language of the texts being translated. I would hypothesize that the translators at the time saw the words kill and murder as being able to be used interchangeably. Or, if not, that the slight difference in connotation was a method of inserting the Church's values into the Bible.Given that Christianity tends to have rather pacifistic values (that is, if you throw out Augustine's work on establishing the just war tradition in the 4th and 5th centuries, CE), widening the scope of the verb to killing in general would make sense. The acts of killing and murder are the same... the only difference between the two is the intention with which the act is done. And, as definitions of sin in Christianity at the time tended to focus more on action than on intention, the discrepancy makes sense.Most, more modern, translations have rectified the discrepancy between the English and the original Hebrew of the text. However, due to the wide dissemination and long-standing authority of the King James translation, most people are familiar with this version of the text.I think this translation raises an interesting theological question. Do actions matter more than intention? Or do intentions matter more than actions? Many different traditions take many different stances on this matter. In fact, there is a whole spectrum of thought regarding whether intention or actual action is more important in governing one's actions.
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Sincerely Wrong
(the Straw Man Argument Greg tried)
The Lord of Life
By Greg Laurie
Harvest MinistriesAs Christians, we believe we have absolute truth from God, and we develop our worldview from what the Bible teaches. As I said in a previous column, we do not seek to conform and accommodate the unchanging truths of Scripture to our changing culture, but rather seek to change our culture to conform to what the Bible teaches.Commandment number six of the Ten Commandments says: "You must not kill" (Exodus 20:13).A more accurate translation of Exodus 20:13 would read, "You shall not commit murder." This commandment obviously forbids the taking of another human life for no justifiable reason.I can't go into depth here in this column, but suffice it to say that the Bibledoes not condemn all killing. Numbers 35 plainly states the difference God sets between killing and murder. All murder, of course, is killing, but not all killing is necessarily murder. There are times when death is permissible (though not desirable). Self-defense is one example. If someone were to break into your house with the intent of killing you or your family, Scripture allows you to defend yourself.When our military or law enforcement officers strike at terrorists who have attacked our nation, that is justifiable killing. It is not murder; it is self-defense.Some pacifists will say, "When we kill terrorists we're just as bad as they are, because all killing is sin." This is called the "moral equivalency" approach. I would respond with this question: Was it wrong to use force to stop the Nazis from destroying the Jews? No, it was a just use of force to save innocent lives.God has established order and laws by which a culture ought to be governed. There will always be those who break those laws, and there must be repercussions.In Romans 13, the apostle declares that God Himself has raised up the military and the police to do His work.What does the Bible mean when it says, "You shall not murder"? The Hebrew term means "to dash in pieces." It is never used to describe the death of an animal, an opponent in war or capital punishment.Speaking of capital punishment, it was established by God Himself, many years before the Ten Commandments. Way back in the early chapters of the book of Genesis, God said: "Murder is forbidden … any person who murders must be killed. Yes, you must execute anyone who murders another person, for to kill a person is to kill a living being made in God's image" (Genesis 9:5, 6 NLT).The Bible consistently views capital punishment as "justice," not "murder." It is seen as a deterrent to others committing such crimes of violence, and thus, a protector of life.Some would have difficulty understanding why Christians with a biblical worldview would condone the execution of a murderer, and yet oppose abortion. To me, the opposite view is much more illogical and difficult to understand: How some people will oppose capital punishment and yet support abortion!They want to kill the innocent and spare the guilty. I want to spare the innocent and judge the guilty
Gregs Interpretation is the “New Christianity Perspective”
(Greg I like for several reasons, but I know when Men of God are wrong and where.
When anything Contradicts Scripture
You have several options;
1) You are wrong
2) The Bible is wrong
3) Your “question” is wrong. (meaning the premise)
· Greg doesn’t quote the most famous of all quotes or explain it.
· Greg uses a ‘straw man’ argument that at best is philosophical but dualism
Here are the facts
The Bible
· "You must not kill" (Exodus 20:13) or "You shall not commit murder." ( I agree)
· “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause[b] shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
(Whoops…., Jesus should have said, “You shall not murder”, and ended it with “You will be murdered.” That would hold true for Greg’s Strawman Argument, but He didn’t quote Jesus, He quoted the Ten Commandments so: )
·
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
( OK…, So Jesus came to fulfill the : You shall not murder, and He isn’t doing away with it but he made it include anger….., )
·
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor[g] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[h] 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren[i] only, what do you do morethan others? Do not even the tax collectors[j] do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
( AHH How do you Kill the One You Love?, How Do You Self-Protect from hate, persecution, and abuse? According to Jesus you might have to die for your faith)
So Why do people teach Killing and Murder is Ok?
They haven’t deal with the facts of Christianity.
Here is Historical Biblical Christianity:
Early Church
The Early Church position ruled out violence as an option, even in self-defense. The evidence for this includes the story of Stephen found in Acts 7:59-60. In the story Stephen is stoned to death for his faith, but even at the moment before death, he forgives his assailants for their crime. A similar story is found later in the book of Acts when Paul is also violently attacked for his beliefs, and yet does not seek revenge:
The crowd stoned Paul and dragged him outside the city, thinking he was dead. But after the disciples had gathered around him, he got up and went back into the city. Then they returned to Lystra, Iconium and Antioch, strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. "We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God," they said. -Acts 14:19-22 NIV
In Paul's first letter to the Corinthian Church, he writes of the importance of nonretaliation, even in the face of death:
It seems to me that God has put us on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe. To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. Yet when we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly. -1 Corinthians 4:9-13 NIV
As demonstrated by the following quotes, no Early Church father interpreted Jesus' teachings as advocating anything but strict nonviolence:
The Lord, in disarming Peter, disarmed every soldier.
—Tertullian’s On Idolatry[1]
Christians could never slay their enemies. For the more that kings, rulers, and peoples have persecuted them everywhere, the more Christians have increased in number and grown in strength.
