PRECEPTS FOR LIFE
a Production of
Precept Ministries International
P.O. Box 182218, Chattanooga, TN 37422-7218
1-888-734-7707/ www.preceptsforlife.com
The following is an actual transcript of the PRECEPTS FOR LIFE Broadcast. For the purpose of filling transcript requests quickly, they have received only light editing. If you have questions concerning the material covered in this broadcast, Kay has published a number of books explaining the Scripture in depth. These books may be ordered by contacting the telephone number or address printed above.
SERIES: Interview With Bob And Diane Vereen
TITLE: Program 1 - Where Was God?
WEDNESDAY (12/16/09)
Bill: In the wake of a horrifying disaster in your own life, you may be left with doubts, fears, questions. Questions of Blame. Questions of Guilt. Questions of Faith. When disaster hits you, how do you cope? How do you deal with the pain of a personal tragedy in your own life? How do you heal Emotionally. . . Physically. . .Spiritually? Do you ever wonder if there is anyone in Control? If there is a God, where is He? Join us today as we discover the answers to these questions on Precepts For Life.
PART ONE
MAN ON THE STREET INTERVIEWS:
Woman 1: I think humans are in control of a lot of fate. God plays part in our life, but I think he stands back for the human element.
Man 1: I control my own destiny. I make the decision whether I want to be with God or not.
Woman 2: It‟s up to us what we do. And we have choices in life and it‟s up to us to make those decisions. And, so that‟s why I think we‟re in control.
Man 2: It‟s beyond our control.
Man 3: I guess I‟m in control of my own destiny as far as the choices I make.
Man 4: I think it‟s more of a crutch to lean on, instead of, like the controlling force, like what upstairs with the, the big remote control for everybody telling them what to do.
Woman 3: I know somebody has to be in control, because of, because of the way things work.
Man 5: Without God man you ain‟t, I don‟t know what to tell you if you ain‟t got God on your side.
IN THE STUDIO:
Kay: It‟s one thing to look at a disaster from afar off. It‟s one thing to hear about it on television. And many times our hearts are gripped and they‟re torn, but it‟s another thing to live through a disaster.
I want to introduce to you, Bob and Diane Vereen. They are our Ambassadors at Large at Precept Ministries International, and they travel all over the world.
And yet I remember what happened twelve years ago. I picked up the phone and I heard these words: “Kay, this is Bobby, and I‟ve got something to tell you.” And at that moment they told me of a tragedy that they were living through.
And it was like one tragedy upon another. And you‟re going to hear their story today, but more importantly, Precious One, you‟re not only going to hear their story, but you‟re going to learn:
How do you live in the midst of that disaster?
How do you understand what is going on when all of a sudden tragedy hits.
You wonder, “God, where are you?”
And I can tell you honestly that this dear couple can give you hope and they can give you help for your future because we all suffer in one way or another.
THE SCOTT VEREEN STORY:
Diane: There were times, literally, I felt like I was having a heart attack.
Bob: You just almost feel like at times, “I‟m not sure I‟m gonna be able to, to go through this. I‟m just not sure I‟m gonna make it.”
Debbie: Bob and Diane Vereen were living what most would consider a good life. They were both active in ministry, serving as Ambassadors for Precept Ministries International, happily married and the proud parents of two successful sons, Scott and Sean. Scott was the oldest and constantly made big footprints for his little brother to fill.
Sean: I think you know just the, the enjoyment of uh you know having the competitiveness but also having a best friend who you know was my brother. Um you know we got to room together in college. We played baseball together in college.
Debbie: Scott was a gifted athlete. He especially loved football and baseball ....but Scott realized what made him great on and off the field.
Bob: He worked extremely hard at whatever he did. Therefore in a lot of cases he would rise above some of the kids that maybe had more natural talent. Uh But his perseverance and discipline and, and work ethics just were overwhelming.
Diane: Probably one of the most coveted awards that Scott got was when he was in in college. He was a senior in college playing college baseball and Scott was given the award for uh it was the Bo Freeman Award. And he was given that award recognizing his Christian character in the athletic arena and out of the athletic arena.”
Debbie: After graduating college Scott married his high school sweetheart Chrissie. At age twenty two these newlyweds were living the fairytale life when the unthinkable happened.
Sean: “I could tell you like it was yesterday. It was February the 18th of 1994. It was a Friday afternoon. It was um crystal clear blue day."
Bob: I was sitting uh in my uh breakfast room, at the, at the breakfast table and I was studying the book of Revelation. And uh I received the phone call. And on the other end of the phone was Johnny. And Johnny was Scott‟s boss.
Diane: Bobby called me at the doctor‟s office and of course when he, I picked up the telephone he said my name over and over again. And I could tell by the tone of his voice that there was something wrong. Bobby said, “Diane, Scott is dead. And of course the first thing that happened is that I just couldn‟t believe it. I just said no, there‟s got to be a mistake. And I, I kept trying to get him to tell me that it was a mistake.
Debbie: A parents worst nightmare became a shocking and devastating reality within a matter of minutes. Scott was tragically killed when his car slammed into the back of a truck loaded with lumber. Many friends and family members asked how such a tragedy could happen to someone whose life held so much promise.
Sean: The hard part for me was the, the fact and the reality that it was over. The fact that I couldn‟t pick up the phone and call, the fact that I couldn‟t get advice, the fact that just the night before I had spoken to him.
Bob: The emotions run wild. The emotions go ah all over the board, everywhere. And the mind has a tendency to wonder in terms of, “What did I do wrong?” Uh, probably uh one of the most painful experiences I‟ve ever gone through.
Diane: I‟d be standing in the shower and start crying. Or I‟d be in the car or in the grocery store. And just for no reason something would remind me of Scott and I would start crying.
Debbie: Scott was 23 years old when he died. The Vereen‟s grieve over their loss, but they find peace in knowing that at the age of 17 Scott gave his life to Christ.
The Vereen now shares their story to help others cope with the loss of a loved one.
Diane: The day that Scott was buried uh I just asked the Lord that day not to let his death be in vain. And I knew that it would not be in vain but it would be in vain in my life if I did not allow the Lord to do what he wanted to do through my life and in my life as a result of it.
Sean: The greatest thing that I know and remember about my brother was that he was ready. Scott was at total peace with his life. He was at peace with his Savior. He was at peace with his wife. He was at peace with his family and his friends. And that‟s what we try to give the encouragement to other people is is is first of all, are you at peace with your Savior? Are you at peace and knowing that if, if I walk out of this door today and I‟m in a car accident or I have a heart attack or I have some other illness that it‟s my time to go that I‟m at total peace with my savior. That‟s the number one key.
IN THE STUDIO:
Kay: You‟ve heard their story and you understand the tragedy. And you‟ve experienced some of the pain, but I know you want to know, “How did you make it?” “How did you survive?” “How did you keep from getting angry at God?” Or, “Did you get angry at God?” “Were you bitter?”
Did you say: “Well! If this is what it means to serve You, then You can just forget it!”
Because these two people have literally poured out their lives for the sake of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Well I remember getting in the car. I remember driving with another staff couple all the way to the funeral.
And as we drove, I was thinking, you know, it was seven months ago that I was on this same road going to their wedding. And I remember you couldn‟t get near the funeral home. I mean, there were young people all over the place.
There were adults and somebody spotted me and somebody recognized me as being close to them and working with them at Precept Ministries International and they said, “Come on, and we‟ll take you through.”
But I‟m telling you that that funeral service and what Bob said to me when I saw him for the very first time, you said, “I want you to know…”
Bob: Umhmm.
Kay: You looked at me and you said, “I want you to know that His Word is true and His grace is sufficient…
Bob: That‟s true.
Kay: … and God has not left the throne.” And I‟ll never forget it because I thought, “God, he really believes. He really did.”
Bob: Oh yeah! Because um, the, the key I think Kay was that, for years since my salvation in 1978 until 1994, during all of those years, those uh 16 years, it had been my pattern to study the Word of God and I‟m so thankful that I was introduced to the inductive method of studying the Word of God, because I really discovered truth for myself. And those truths were just not things that I knew about in the Bible, but they were things that I had embraced and they had become a part of me because God Himself had, through the Holy Spirit had taught me those truths.
Kay: Um hmm.
Bob: And when you said, “Do you remember what you said?” I remember that the thing that carried me through was the, the Word of God and I love what a friend of mine said when he went through a tragedy. He said: “When the bottom fell out, my feet landed on the rock.”
Kay: Unnnhh.
Bob: He landed on the Word of God. And all those years of studying the Word of God, those truths just started coming to surface. And every time I would think of something, God would bring to remembrance a truth. I, I never will forget the first time I hung the phone up after receiving the news, I sa-, I cried out to God and I said, “God, I don‟t think I can go through this.”
Kay: Umhmm.
Bob: And immediately that uh verse of scripture in 1 Corinthians 10:13 came to my mind, immediately. There has. [“No temptation or trial taken you such as uh common to man.”] (PARAPHRASE, 1 Corinthians 10:13a, KJV), but um.
Kay: “God is faithful….” (1 Corinthians 10:13b)
Bob: [“Faithful, and He will,” uh-um-um, you know, “enable you to, to endure it,” or to go through it, “and will provide the way of escape,”] (PARAPHRASE, 1 Corinthians 10:13b, KJV) and uh-, that verse of scripture was the first uh, response of God, if you will. So the Word of God is just so tremendously important, and then the second thing that you said was that, “That was the past.” That was what, what laid the foundation, if you will, for that event. But then the other thing that was so important was the grace. You know the, uh, “My grace is sufficient….” (2 Corinthians 12:9b) And [“My grace is is is enough.”] (PARAPHRASE, 2 Corinthians 12:9b) And uh-, I believe that‟s the, the key. It was not something that I did. It was something that God was doing in me.
Kay: And Diane, when we come back, I know that your two boys, well, your three boys counting Bob. And he acts like a boy many times, but uh-, but I know that your two boys were, next to Jesus, they were the center of your life, and I know that you had ah, your mother ah had cancer, uh you were going through all sorts of other trials when this happened, and nuh, I want you to share when we come back.
Diane: Thank you.
PART TWO
MAN ON THE STREET INTERVIEWS:
Man 1: I, I‟m not a real bi-, big believer in God, but I mean I know there is something bigger out there that controls everything, but I‟m not sure what.
Woman 1: Uh, Definitely the Lord God is in control. Uh, He does everything, uh, with a purpose and even though we don‟t understand it, He is uh, is defiantly in control. He knows what the end result is.
Man 2: Whatever you want to call Him, I call Him God, other people may have a different name, and, and there‟s got to be a higher order out there is unknown to most of us and remains hidden and uh, that secret is always what we‟re searching for.
Woman 2: Yeah, it‟s up to us kinda. God doesn‟t force us to do anything, you know.
Woman 3: My own self, I‟ve lost a child and I know going through that God was the only peace that I had. And the day we buried my child I can‟t tell you but the peace that I had was beyond all measures, and I know that only comes from above. And that‟s the peace that God gives.
IN THE STUDIO:
Kay: And suppose, Precious One, we put that microphone in front of you and we asked you: Who‟s in control when bad things happen? And suppose something bad had just happened to you.
Suppose your mate had told you that they were leaving. Suppose you got word about cancer. Suppose you heard that your daugh- granddaughter, as one of my friends just heard, your granddaughter was murdered.
What would you say? How would you answer? Is there an answer? Do we really know who‟s in control? Well, as you know, we‟ve been talking to Bob and Diane. And you know how that car went up and and how another one had stopped and how that wood came right through and and killed Scott.
Where was God? Well, Diane, you had to answer that question, didn‟t you?
Diane: I certainly did, Kay.
Kay: Yeah, and those boys were so special to you, are so special to you.
Diane: They they are and I literally would have given my life for them. But God chose to take Scott home and the thing that I had to ask myself was “Where was God?” Well God was on the throne because He is El Elyon: He‟s the most High God. He rules over the realm of mankind.
He was also with Scott that day because He‟s omnipresent. He was with me and when I was taking care of my mother who was dying with cancer. And He was with Bobby and our youngest son in Chattanooga. And I also had to think, “Well, God why didn‟t you stop it?” You know He could have because He‟s all powerful and He had the power to do that. But I also know what the Word of God says and and God had just used these verses in my heart over and over again to encourage me and and take me through a healing process. But God knew the plans that He had for Scott and they were plans for good, not for evil to give him a future and a hope. And before he was ever formed in my wombs God had numbered his days. So that day was just a fulfillment of those days that He had ordained for Scott.
Kay: Yeah, I love that verse it‟s Psalm 139 when he says, [“He, He wrote in the book all of our days”] (Paraphrase, Psalm 139:16b) God did, “…when…there was not [yet] one of them.” (Psalm 139:16d)
Diane: Yes
Kay: All of Scott‟s days. But it‟s so hard because you think, he was such a fine young man, I mean he was so outstanding and so kind and so compassionate and so burdened, burdened that others would come to know the Lord Jesus Christ. And does it make you afraid to give your child to God or to say to God, “God, whatever it takes, use me to bring another person to Christ”?
Diane: I think, Kay, if you know your God and you know that He is a God of love and that He knows better than we do and you can trust Him, then you have to be able to trust Him with your children. And you know both of my boys were in open hands before the Lord, and that was difficult. I mean it‟s been a very very painful, painful process and certainly not one that I would‟ve chosen to go through, but the reality is: God is, is a trustworthy God. And and I had to just choose to believe what He said in His Word and choose to believe who He is rather than keeping my focus on those circumstances. Humanly, as I said earlier, it doesn‟t make any sense to me even today.
Kay: Yeah. I have walked through this with you. I‟ve been there. We‟ve shared many evenings together and we‟ve been at our headquarters in Israel and I‟ve seen the tears come and mine came with yours and Bob, I love it „cause you‟re a man in touch with your emotions and you were crying at the beginning of this program, uh, because I was crying. But the tears, the pain: what do you do when all of the sudden the wave, the remembrance of it comes and and and hits you, you know? How do you handle that?
Bob: I don‟t know if this is the right thing to say, Kay, but enjoy the moment.
Kay: Enjoy the moment…
Bob: Yeah, you know. Let the tears flow.
Kay: Yeah
Bob: Ah, it ah ah, to to cherish that, that pain that uh that the ah absence that is there on the one hand. On the other hand uh, Diane says it best when she says, “I choose not to live there....”
Kay: Yeah
Bob: “…I choose not to stay there” because if you stay there then then comes anger, then comes bitterness, but it‟s OK to have those emotions and we still do obviously.
Kay: Mmhm. When you stay there then you deal with the „what if‟s‟ and the „if only‟s‟ and “Why did you?” and “Where were you?” and and otherwise if you look at the Word and you say, “OK, God, this is who you are.” This is what you hear. I love what your friend said, you know, when the bottom falls out you land on the Rock. And the thing is that that that Rock was cleft.
Remember that God had Moses in the cleft of the rock when He passed by in all of His power and all of His majesty. And I think about that cleft of the rock as being Jesus, you know, that He‟s there and He‟s sufficient. (See Exodus 33:-12-22) And and I think about Abraham offering Isaac.
How could Abraham obey God and offer his son as a sacrifice, you know, “…”Take…your son, your only son, whom you love….‟” (Genesis 22:2a) [“And offer him as a sacrifice where I‟ll tell you”]? (Paraphrase, Genesis 22:2b) And you think, “How?” It‟s because Abraham looked beyond that to the fact that God was going to raise him from the dead.
And he though, “OK, if I put him to death the promises are renewed you promised me an heir. This is my heir. You‟re just going to have to raise him from the dead.” And when I found that verse in Hebrews 11 and ah, when it was saying, you know that in this hall of faith, of trusting God and over and over and over again you see them just trusting God in all these things.
And then in Hebrews chapter 11 it says that He considered God.
It says,
“By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; it was he who to whom it was said, „In Isaac your descendants…,‟” or your seed, “„…shall be called.‟ He considered that God is able…,” God is able, “…to raise [men] even from the dead, from which…also [he] received him back as a type.”
(Hebrews 11: 17-19)
Because He stopped him and he says, “Now I know. Now I know that you love Me.” Would you say that trials show or demonstrate our relationship to God?
Bob: Oh absolutely. Yeah because, I think, for me the af affirmation of my faith came in the death of our son because I saw the supernatural. I felt the supernatural. I experienced the supernatural strength and grace of God.
Kay: Precious One, listen to me very very carefully. You do not have to be afraid of the trial. You do not have to be afraid of the tragedy because God sits on His throne.
Psalm 103 says, “…His sovereignty rules over all.”
(Psalm 103:19b)
Isaiah 45 says that, [God wounds and God heals.] (Paraphrase, Deuteronomy 32:39) That God, I‟m sorry that‟s Deuteronomy that says that. Isaiah 45 says, [He creates good and He creates adversity.] (Paraphrase, Isaiah 45:7)
If it‟s God behind it, Beloved, just know that you can make it. It‟s not Mother Nature, it‟s Father God. It‟s not the devil; it‟s Almighty, omnipotent, Lord.
He is God. He‟s on His throne. You can trust Him. Rest and trust in His promises. Cling to Him,
“…as the waistband clings to the waist of a man….” (Jeremiah 13:11a)
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